That's right -- it really does not matter (to me) why they split up. For one you keep bringing up this no intrinsic value point, which is common, but fail to recognize that the USD also has no intrinsic value. Warren Buffet says dont invest in what you dont understand, and I dont understand Bitcoin. Do these 2 billion unbanned people 1) have internet access and 2) access to the initial bitcoin to get in on this internet money? Then you have to pay a ton of interest to borrow it, and be lucky with the timing. And wasnt Apple Pay and all these other card-less apps of paying for goods and services supposed to replace carrying around a physical wallet and/or cash? Bitcoin didnt fly off the charts until a couple of months ago, after (maybe) finding itself in the perfect storm to take a bubble to biblical proportions. Margin of Saving Thank you Jane, I have been waiting for someone to point this out! But there are interesting aspects to the technology and what it could develop into. Just like gold, tulip bulbs, Beanie Babies, 1999 dotcoms without any hope of a product plan, pre-construction pricing Toronto condominiums you have no intent to occupy or rent out, and rare baseball cards are not investments. As should everyone. Like my double comment? Jay Holden And it gets worse: Some large, popular components of the S&P have a PE of closer to 300, meaning it would take 300 years to earn back your initial investment. Or the cars people use to haul that stuff then. February 13, 2018, 5:35 pm. Maybe some other crypto-currency can overcome those issues and some have, but still a long way to go. Its all the same stuff that people say about Gold, which is also a totally irrational waste of human investment energy. GPU mining is dead. Pete Adeney is the man behind the money mustache, and he's full of great stories and advice. The bad news is that this means Bitcoin is going to keep wasting more and more electricity as the bubble goes on, and it doesnt matter that no one uses it anymore. The ones that take off will likely be govt created versions. The very definition of an unsophisticated investor is Being more willing to buy something, the more its price goes up.. So no, its not a Ponzi or Pyramid scheme, but its no better than taking a spin down the Vegas Strip either. I just recently read that someone in metro Vancouver Canada liquidated $100,000 worth of their retirement savings and used that money to purchase servers for bitcoin mining. As for spending your Bitcoin, I digress. Its a win-win situation. Even some cryptocurrencies that currently exist. Bitcoin is a nascent technology and will evolve with time. Im just curious what your motivations are for all your comments. Full faith and what? Yes there is. One way or another, at some point, the cycle will end, and the cycle will start again. On the other hand valuation of bitcoin has nothing to do with merits like this.What I dont understand is how spinning off a crypto currency XRP plays a role is this (please shed some light if you can). January 5, 2018, 8:26 am. I cant help but feel that a big part of the reason for Bitcoins continued rise is that theres no safe, practical way for us Bitcoin-skeptics to actually take a short position on it. Either way how about not alienate people based off their investments and act like an actual human being instead of a sociopath? You mixed that up. ), but not because they did anything useful or produced any money and value to society,. I 100% agree with what Vijay has been saying. There is a reason that central banks own most of the wotlds gold. Im sorry MMM, but the consensus is that your fingernails are worth nothing (you couldnt even pay me to hold them), and that 1 BTC is worth more than your bike. Mr Money Mustache 26-02-2023 Hobbyen. I am already looking forward to looking back and laughing at all the companies who did away with their normal businesses to become mining companies. 8. Videos of Andreas Antonopoulos on Bitcoins in Youtube. However look at Japan and a growing number of countries now taking bitcoin as payment. Feel free to throw in some early questions. Bitcoin values are delusional. This separation is important becausethe usefulness of Blockchain is the primary justification people use for the big dumb Bitcoin lottery. I would recommend everyone to do their own research because many of what MMM says is plain wrong. I try to lead people to conclude what I have. But thats just the software side (Blockchain). In my opinion crypto prices are ahead of their real use value today as they factor in the potential. Vijay how can it be a useful currency without a relatively stable value? Keep fighting the good fight, Vijay. Speculation is very useful and I dont think anyone is going off on peoples choice to speculate, but people are very bad at properly evaluating risk. Personally, I think this article shows that Mr Adeney has had his blog hijacked by the Anti-satoshi ;). if there was something I wanted to buy online from another country and they didnt take the dollar for whatever reason its an OK solution. Facebook is probably the 4th or 5th legitimate social media platform. Its a huge money maker if you can bet that youre not the bigger fool. Big banks get crushed, millions of americans were underwater on their homes and forces to foreclose and then they get a bailout from the US of A paid for by yours truly, the average american tax payer. But coincidentally, after I got my computer engineering degree I ended up specializing in security and encryption technologies for most of my career. (Update from late 2018 Mike ended up being wayyyy wrong.). We still need banks for other forms of financial services such as loans, investments, business services, etc.. Will Bitcoin replace that, too? Also true. John Tucker Mining other coins can still be profitable with graphics cards, mainly ETH/ETC. Yes, it is true that bonds are *also* in a bubble at the present timeand that the bond bubble is so big that it makes stocks look relatively cheap by comparison. A decentralised system where no human has the power to manipulate money supply is the best thing that any society can expect, to get its finances and economy in order. An investment is something that has intrinsic value that is, it would be worth owning from a financial perspective,even if you could never sell it. WHY HAVE YOU NOT INVESTED YET!?!?! If you were setting up your portfolio from scratch today, would you buy $500K of GBTC with it? 1. Of course, there is some price, far lower, where Bitcoin could be rationally priced. And then follow that thread all the way back to the fact that the future blockchain(s) all of these future uses are built on are going to be continuations of the most valuable blockchains of today because valuable blockchains are a prerequisite for the data integrity required for high value use cases. You are a noble man ! Im not advocating throwing all your money into crypto (I havent see anyone say that). Like every state currency, it derives its worth out of the fact that the state says you can *always* pay your taxes with it Ryan Thomas For a long answer you need to understand the technicalities of it which I am not going to educate you on! Your risk is your own, but understand that bitcoin is gambling. Even if youre the only one doing it. Evan Drake Even the Bogleheads forum has not been immune. Id love to see MMM fingernail futures one day on my ticker chart. You are just parroting what every novice tells about Money. Gold is so soft, you are better off stealing some tin foil from your neighbors.. and burying the potatoes under the fire! Bitcoin 2.0 is already here, people just dont know it yet. Cmon people its not rocket science. Or physical goods if you want to use it to record land or vehicle deeds, etc. My Take: Cryptocurrencies have A LOT of problems currently. Do not give up. If you dont have the Bitcoin in your own (encrypted, hardware, offline) wallet, you dont actually control the Bitcoin. This is because society is nothing but an abstract grouping of individuals. The behavior of bitcoin since the genesis block has been completely different. Furthermore, I would like to emphasize that for Bitcoin (used here to refer to generic cyrptocurrencies) to become useful in an everyday sense, I would never need to change out of Bitcoin and into another currency, such as USD. It is a good. https://www.amazon.com/giftcardscams/b?ie=UTF8&node=15435487011, Ryan Schaap Most of the 1000s of cryptos (and maybe even bitcoin) will fail, but the few that remain will change the world. Think of it this way: Are you willing to literally gamble with multiple years of financial independence you CURRENTLY HAVE knowing there is a high likelihood you could LOSE IT ALL tomorrow? How else should people behave? You clearly have a contrarian opinion here. They dont tend to go longer than that. Woodser Bitcoin only has one, scarcity , and even that is debatable. (Now, as you mentioned, it is most likely just speculation driven by greed). SMH. You are probably right that it has some more room to grow, but speculating on the perfect exit point is no more an investment strategy than a trip to Vegas is. As we know from MMM teachings, safety and security are lies. Read your history, it happens occasionally even in the great USA (a few times actually). Should I just get out now? If youre in a position to do so, go for it. Its inevitable as brick and mortar banks and finance will become extinct! In short this is nothing more than trust. Educate yourself on why Bitcoin and Blockchain cannot be split up. I want to know will it make my day to day life easier? All true. But sometimes they do. Also, what is the source of that study? Its a complete rip off. Certianly seems like Vijay has some vested interests in Bitcoin..it is pretty obvious. January 3, 2018, 4:34 pm. January 19, 2018, 6:45 pm. Think that would fly at the grocery store? The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. No one knows what the stable value of bitcoin will end up, and betting in either direction just seems like a fools errand. Hows that Nvidia stock doing now that GPU sales have been skyrocketing this last year giving them two record years in 2016 and 2017? MMM has been writing quality PF content for years. This means whoever is buying this paper is doing so despite the fact they are guaranteed to lose money on the investment. Much of this buying has been propelled by central banks which can print their own currency and buy debt indiscriminately. I understand the concept of having an idea, building business around it with angel investors and later going public where you and I can invest but I dont understand investing in something like XRP. A stock is a share of an actual company, bound by rules and regs (however imperfectly administered, at least they exist). This is bitcoin's intrinsic value and the longer it exists, the more apparent it will be. Bitcart.io takes DASH. Do you really think you own your Fiat paper? Me personally, Im betting on the buck. Andy Stow I also remember that bubble..sure a lot of things moved to the internet but it had to crash..hard first. A digital advertising ecosystem to fund it all. Jul 25, 2021 164 comments Its rising because people are buying it up, hoping someone else will buy it at an even higher price later. A lot of stocks never pay dividends though. But how do you know youre investing in Amazon, and not Pets.com? I enjoyed the cancer pill analogy, probably the best I have heard of yet. Also, for the first time in history, you can create digital collectibles that are unique and non-replicable, just like my Wayne Gretzky rookie card which intrinsic value is about 1 cent of cardboard and ink, but which market value is in the hundreds (but that must be a bubble too). coinwarz.com keeps track of profitability, but it can rapidly swing with changes in coin price. =. Ive been experiencing the Bitcoin frenzy from the sidelines, but I recently went all in, buying up 20 physical commemorative Bitcoins on eBay. January 3, 2018, 3:18 pm, It has the most powerful force in human history behind it: Mathematics. 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